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Today it is official, “The IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability Announcement” - see also, Torley Linden’s video here (screenshot above).

Hamilton Linden and Inifinty Linden visited OpenSim office hours in Wright’s Plaza, OSGrid, last week with some big news (screenshot below). 25 avatars gathered to discuss with great enthusiasm Hamilton Linden’s proposal that Linden Lab would provide an Open Beta for the Open Grid Protocol for login and teleport between OpenSim and the Linden Lab Public Open Grid Beta.

This interoperability work has been pioneered by David Levine (IBM researcher, Zha Ewry in Second Life) in conjunction with Linden Lab’s Architecture Working Group. Zha has personally coded the patch and she blogged her progress on this last month. Zha’s interop patch can be viewed here.

Later in this post for Zha’s gives an outline of the steps that could lead to the advent of much anticipated and hotly debated content interoperability.

Why is this Interoperability Initiative so important?

While, in Zha’s words, “this is a proof of concept of protocol.” It is an important first step, not only toward realizing Linden Lab’s dream of expanding the influence of their technology, but for consolidating a heterogenous mix of applications for virtual worlds in an interoperable environment.

Notably, it will allow corporations to deploy private and exploratory grids on OpenSim technology while remaining interoperable with the largest virtual world community to date, Linden Lab’s Second Life.

But it is not only interoperability between Second Life and OpenSim which will unleash the power of virtual worlds, it is interoperability between OpenSim grids. New OpenSim grids like Tribal Net and innovative projects like realXtend are beginning to discuss consolidating their influence through interoperability.

Both Tribal Net and realXtend have led the way re innovation with OpenSim technology (see my posts here, here, here for realXtend and here for Tribal Net). And, both are now in early discussions with OSGrid re interoperability. Charles Krinke, a developer and very excellent open source community organizer, runs OSGrid. He gave me a some background on OSGrid (see an upcoming post for more).

OSGrid is the second oldest OpenSim grid and was created in July, 2007. I began running it in August with 150 users and a dozen regions. Others were brought in as managers, most notably “Nebadon Izumi”, “Hiro Protagonist”, “Paulie Flomar” and more in the fall. We now have 3200 users and nearly 400 regions attached as of early July, 2008.

There are two goals for OSGrid. One is to test the OpenSim releases on a daily basis and the other is to build a healthy community.

Interoperability and consolidation of virtual worlds is vital to their development not only because Metcalfe’s law states that “the value of a telecommunications network is proportional to the square of the number of users of the system” but because Second Life has demonstrated that one of the key contributions of Virtual Worlds so far is their potential to collapse geography (as Cory Ondrejka put it).

Open Virtual Worlds must continue to create new and richer forms of networked interaction, enabling the communication not only of personal identities, but of community identities and cultures in ways not possible or imagined before. This potential cannot be fulfilled by small isolated worlds.

A New Era for Virtual Worlds Begins!

The excitement was palable today in meetings held in Second Life and OpenSim that discussed moving the interoperability initiative forward.

Interoperability is a big deal. This much was clear. And the press were on it! Eric Reuters showed up in the OpenSim IRC today asking questions about IP and virtual economies in the Open Metaverse. And, there are many posts already including TechCrunch, Information Week, Virtual World News, Gamasutra, and Dusan Writer’s.

In the IBM press release, Colin Parris, Vice President, Digital Convergence, IBM said. “Developing this protocol is a key milestone and has the potential to push virtual worlds into the next stage of their evolution.”

The screenshot above is from OpenSim office hours today, Wright’s Plaza, OSGrid. There were 31 avatars present including Zha Ewry, avatar of David Levine, IBM, and at least four Lindens - Hamilton Linden, Tess Linden, Whump Linden, and Periapse Linden (Whump and Periapse are running the Linden Lab Public Open Beta Grid).

Also, there were many of the key OpenSim developers, Adam Johnson and Jeff Ames dropped in from Genkii, Japan (see here for more). There were several avatars from IBM in addition to Zha, and members of the Microsoft Development Community in OpenSim, notably G2 Proto, were there.

In the foreground of the screenshot above you can see the OpenSim avatar of Mic Bowman, Principal Engineer from Intel, Finrod Meriman. Mic is an important advocate for Interoperable Virtual Worlds and active member of the OpenSim development community. This was a power house gathering signalling interoperability as the future of virtual worlds has arrived.

Hamilton announced the link for the Public Open Grid Beta, and told the gathering:

You just need to contact Periapse or Whump Linden and they’ll get you setup. Although, we’re are officially committing to July 31st to start. But we’d obviously like to do it sooner. When it starts they’ll give you the info for the downloadable viewer and access to the Agent Domain Host.

Steps Towards Content Interoperability: Interview with Zha Ewry.

Interoperability will raise many new social/business questions for virtual worlds (particularly re content and business models). However, because this proof of concept is between the Linden Lab Public Open Grid Beta, which is not part of the Second Life economy, and OpenSim there is time for some of these questions to be explored.

This exploratory process began at a large meeting held by Zero Linden last week that focused on some of the community concerns about interoperability (see transcript here).

I asked Zha Ewry what she saw as the steps that would lead to content traveling back and forth between Second Life and OpenSim. The movement of content is where most of the thorny social/legal/business questions around interoperability emerge.

Zha outlined what the technical steps would be while noting that the social questions were just beginning to be explored:

Zha: There are a series of about four technical/social/legal steps.

First, we need a protocol for establishing proof of identity between
the components. ie for the sims and services to cross prove they are
who they claim to be, which is peer to having a trusted identity for
the users.

Second, we need a way of expressing policy This is orthogonal to one,
but pretty much requires the proof of identity in order to be useful.
In particular, we want to be able to express what the content creator
desires, including whether they wish it to be restricted to a grid, or
set of grids, copy and use and so on.

Third, we need an agreed public protocol for asset fetch including
both copy, and ACID fetch, and a reliable way of managing no-copy
assets. This is the brute work of moving the digital assets around,
and would exploit one and two to determine if assets should be movable
at all.

Fourth you would want the legal and social framework for using the
technical capabilities. This would be akin to a Terms of Service for
connecting stuff together, which would spell out what policies were in
place. effectively, these become the specific agreements which couple
the first three together, so that we have a safe, agreed way of moving
only the publically accessible assets (we can in fact, do parts of
this, in parallel, so we could work on 3) with public domain assets,
on a set of sims, that only had public assets) while working on 1 and
2.

A lot of this takes on a flavor of building up a layered set of
abilities, and then allowing people to compose a range of possible
solutions. At the protocol level, we want to allow a lot of
flexibility so different grids and communities can explore different
strategies. This is not about a one size fits all approach, or about
having a good enough crystal ball to pick an approach. An open source
community, with open protocols has the luxury of encouraging
experimentation.

Tish: So have the proof of identity protocols been published in any
current AWG docs or worked on?

Zha: It has been discussed, but not in any detail

Tish: So on the agenda?

Zha: Oh, very much so!

For an in depth and somewhat technical discussion of how issues of IP, trust, and managing permissions, licenses etc. might be managed with interoperable virtual worlds see the chatlog from todays Architectural Working Group Groupies discussion.

Content is already on the move in the Open Metaverse

Tribal Net announced this week that Second Inventory is now working on Tribal:

This software lets you backup and restore content to and from different grids, like for example the Second Life(tm) grid, and Tribal Net - which makes Tribal Net an excellent tool to work in private or offline with content, or to make and transfer objects thru e-mail or the web. (You can now distribute your Second Life(tm) object thru your blog - literally!)

Also Tribal annoinced they have 200 members, “and 150 of those has published their own islands. We now have a small core of dedicated 3D pioneers.”

They have also started a community micro-blogosphere that you might want to check out.

Ron Andrade of Common.Sensible has been checking Tribal out and has written a nice post about what he has found. He also notes re the integration of Tribal with Second Inventory that this is not opened the door to all kinds of content transfer or theft.

Now don’t panic, all you against-theft-aggregations and I. P. advocates. You can only copy your inventory and you must be using the same avatar name on Tribal Net as you are using in Second Life. All the permissions remain the same. So, creators, fear not: your hard work is safe. Well, every bit as safe as it currently is in Second Life. Although it is unknown how scripts and other things will react. But hey, if you are the adventurous type with the resources and time, give it a shot.

Stefan Andersson of Tribal noted we should remember “the pioneering and experimental aspect of inter-grid content transfer, and that people should expect some bumps in the road.”

There is a lot of excitement in the Japanese Metaverse these days.

I met some of the the most important Japanese metaverse companies at the Virtual Worlds Expo and Conference in New York City earlier this year. And, last week, I managed to catch up with Naoyoshi Shimaya, CEO of Metabirds, and Hiroshi Asaeda, CEO of Meltingdots. I also had a very interesting conversation with Ken Brady and Adam Johnson about their recently launched metaverse consulting company Genkii.

The picture opening this post is a self portrait by Yuki (Genkii’s CCO). See my interview with Ken and Adam later in this post, and my interviews with Metabirds here, and Meltingdots here.

Adam also clued me in to the Virtual Worlds Conference and Expo 2008, Tokyo May 28th to 30th. You can attend the conference in Second Life ™ (A registered Trademark of Linden Lab). Today, I had a little walkabout the conference site in Second Life (picture below).

Philip Rosedale, founder of Second Life ™ (A registered Trademark of Linden Lab) will give “his first and long awaited lecture in Japan.”

Thanks to Genkii’s Adam Johnson for sending me all the updates on the conference! Also, Adam sent me some very interesting news about NTT’s recent investment in the ngi group (see below). This news is making 3Di and their OpenSim developers smile, I would guess!

Big news for the Open Source Metaverse in Japan!

NTTとngi、3Dインターネット関連事業などで業務・資本提携を発表

NTT, the largest telecommunication company in Japan will invest in the ngi group with a total of 1,630,000,000 yen. ngi group is the owner of 3Di so NTT is planning to work on metaverse business with their new NGN (next generation network) system (see Second Times).

I contacted 3Di who are very involved in OpenSim development and part of OpenSim core to try and find out more. But though “currently engaged in a lot of interesting discussion with other companies, and a lot of interesting projects” they are not commenting on this new round of funding. There was an English article in the Nikkei news, Thursday, May 8th, about the ngi/3Di/NTT deal, ” NTT To Take Stakes In ngi group Firms To Tap 3-D Virtual Space Tech:”

NTT will use the ngi group’s 3-D image processing technology to develop a system for managing virtual spaces on its fiber-optic based next-generation network (NGN). It will build such systems on behalf of companies that want to sell goods and host online advertising forums, among other businesses. It will begin receiving orders through such subsidiaries as NTT Communications Corp. as early as October

I asked Ken to comment on this news:

Ken Brady: As far as NTT taking a stake in ngi group and 3Di, I think we’ll have to wait and see what that means for the industry as a whole. NTT is huge, and they have a record of encouraging some really significant innovations. They could really be a driving force behind Japanese adoption of virtual worlds.

Tish Shute: Will this funding specifically get chaneled to any OpenSim projects or is that still another open question?

Ken Brady: I would bet some of it will go toward OpenSim projects, though I think it’s too early to say to what extent. Since NTT is taking an interest in 3Di, and since 3Di is so involved in OpenSim, I think there’s a pretty good chance that they are looking strongly in this direction.

Genkii:

“A Strategic consultancy for social media and virtual worlds.”

Above are Yuki’s portraits of Jeff Ames (CTO), Ken Brady (CEO), and Adam Johnson (COO) and a photo of the Genkii team in Tokyo.

Genkii is not only one of the coolest new companies on the planet, headed up by CEO, Ken Brady, formerly Director of International Strategies at Centric, a science fiction writer, and award winning film producer. But I think Genkii is one of the first Metaverse consulting companies in the world to put “a strong focus on leveraging Open Source platforms.”

While Japanese communities in Second Life are flourishing showing the some of the highest retention rates of anywhere in Second Life, Japan has become an important hub for OpenSim development.

The Open Metaverse enables a melding and reinvention of what has up to these point been divided realms - virtual worlds and the web. And, this company of metaverse “strategists” seems to be gearing up to make productive the fertile ground the first generation of metaverse evangelists has prepared.

As Ken points out virtual worlds are in an unusual and enviable position right now.

It’s really going to come down to what system gives users the experience they want. I think there is a lot of experimentation and head-scratching going on right now about this. In all phases of advertising, purchasing content, etc. Virtual worlds are in an unusual (and enviable, I’d argue) position because we are developing these things while still in the early stages of the industry, while industries like TV, print, movies, music are struggling with radical change.

I think what comes out of all this is a meshing of technologies. Hopefully we grab the good of what’s worked for the web and the good of what’s worked (so far) in virtual worlds and fuse them into a viable, scalable model. We need to create a system that allows people to create and play and work in virtual worlds as easily and as robustly as they do now on the web. That’s a pretty big order.

Also, that requires a huge melding of the minds. A lot of people from a lot of industries need to work together to make this happen.

Genkii already has a strong roster of strategic alliances including:

3Di, Centric, Metabirds, Synthespian Studios, Anvil Media, i-POP, Yosh, Fix8, Metaversatility, DeepThink Labs, and Syn Entertainment.

Interview with Ken Brady and Adam Johnson

Tish Shute: Ken how did you end up in Japan (Adam has told me his story before now he came to Japan to work for ngi!)

Ken Brady: My grandmother is Japanese and I’ve been coming back and forth here for about 5 years. My wife, Yuki, is Japanese/Taiwanese (she’s Genkii’s CCO), and we knew we’d like to live here at some point. While I was with Centric, I was back and forth helping them set up some operations in Asia, and moved when it worked out for everyone involved.

Tish Shute: It seems like Europe and Asia are blazing the trail with OpenSim. Is the US stuck in the dinosaur age re the Open Metaverse?

Ken Brady: OpenSim is growing quickly, there are more and more people (and companies) getting involved in its development, and it’s getting quite a bit of attention in VW media and blogs.

But I think it’s odd, isn’t it? When the web revolution really got its legs in 1995, the development was very US-centric, with other countries following. Now that we’re in the throes of a virtual world and 3D web revolution, it’s a real global undertaking. I don’t know if the US is exactly behind, but they’re certainly not holding all the cards in the game. What happens in Asia and Europe is certainly pushing the US these days.

Tish Shute: Yes you are right. It is not fair to say US is behind ‘cos everyone still has to take a hat off to Linden Lab!

Ken Brady: You’re absolutely right about recognizing LL as the icon they are. Especially in Asia, people always mention SL as the baseline on which every other upstart is measured. It’s all about whether something is a copy of Second Life, an alternative to Second Life, etc. Their name recognition is high.

Tish Shute: And yes SL asset development is spectacular!!! I am wondering if Linden Lab will make a move that could facilitate the rapid development of content in OpenSim. Then we would see a 3D revolution so much quicker, wouldn’t we?

Ken Brady: Agreed that asset development is key. OpenSim needs a robust system that will encourage interest in the platform. Active involvement by a large number of users is what’s going to get it really moving, of course. There’s something of a chicken and the egg dilemma there, right? Many people won’t use OpenSim until all the features are in place, while all the features may not be in place until more people use it.

Tish Shute: I am interested to pursue what your view on virtual economies is. Nao from Metabirds suggests that many new forms of virtual economies will emerge to promote asset development in the Open Metaverse but others seem to think virtual economies are a dead dog, and new models will drive asset developement. And, there are many that think Second Life be the heart of asset development in many prototypical virtual worlds if there work on interoperability with OpenSim proceeds? But what is your view on this very contested question?

Adam Johnson: The easiest route is just to plug in a system that’s already out there. Visa, or Paypal for example. There are also some pluggable game economy systems out there as well. Twofish comes to mind. The second way would be for Linden Lab to open up some sort of API to use their economy. OpenSim already has most of the inner workings in place for economy transactions. All that needs to be done is to customize it to your needs.

Ken Brady: Though I agree with Adam regarding plug-in economies (an easy route), I think there are so many possible models that could arise, depending on the nature of the virtual world in question. Closed systems offer some level of stability, such as with the L$, QQ coins, etc. But there will be certain situations where a virtual economy is not necessary to the development of the world. Barter systems can arise, a more open set of IP rules (like creative commons) could arise to allow more of a reputation-based economy.

Tish Shute: I know you are close to HiPiHi and they have a vision of creating a protected environment for a virtual economy but with some innovations on the Linden Lab model? They mentioned a virtual world ebay idea to me. Do you have thoughts on this idea?

Ken Brady: I don’t think that one system is right for every space. Unless we have all worlds becoming the same, operating on the same rules, with the same users, with the same goals for using each world. Of course, in that case, we’ll all create one virtual world, right?

I really think that reputation economies are viable, though, and what better place to prove the model than in a virtual world?

Tish Shute: Could you explain more about your idea of a reputaion model and what kind of economy that would work in?

Ken Brady: It was a science fiction idea that moved toward an economic model while no one was looking, I think. Both Jason Stoddard, Centric’s CEO and a fellow science fiction writer, and I are big propenents of this model. eBay is, to an extent, an example. In that case, your feedback (others’ satisfaction with your transactions) raises your standing in the community. As more people see your high rating, more people buy from you.

Tish Shute: Didn’t people game the reputation system in Second Life so much they had to take it out?

Ken Brady: Yes, people did that in SL. But it was a limited system, really. It was a popularity contest that didn’t truly mean anything. You didn’t get anything out of having a high ranking. With eBay, it’s self-correcting. Look at Digg or other systems that allow you to rate people up/down. Eventually, you know who to listen to/block. Or who to buy from/stay away from.

Adam Johnson: I think that it’s not well represented solely by a number. Something based on word of mouth probably holds more value.

Ken Brady: Exactly. In a world with no monetary system, though, reputation becomes the goal. The better your reputation, the higher your standing the community (whatever that may correspond to).

For this system to work as an economy, though, there has to be a way to actually get something out of your good reputation. Say, in SL, that land was given out based on reputation, and people with a certain rating got an island…it would make for a radically different environment. If there’s money coming in somewhere, it’s easier. If there is ad revenue, the higher your reputation, the higher the percentage of ad revenue passed on to you.

But this is all just conjecture. I guess I’m just saying that Nao from Metabirds is right: there are so many different models, and that there will be many concepts attempted.

Tish Shute: I realize from your work in Centric you are very familiar with all the social media plays. But I know many people are erked by the social media model of monetizing through advertising. They see advertising as taking over the internet! Will virtual worlds become Scobleized to survive in the open metaverse?

Ken Brady: I don’t actually think advertising is taking over the internet, nor will it take over virtual worlds. That’s been the argument from the beginning, but I think it’s a bit overstated. Ads are everywhere: TV print, movies, the room you’re in right now. They’re just more in your face online where you’re staring at a screen.

Adam Johnson: I’m sure there will be advertising free VWs, but they will cost you. If users want something that’s free, advertising will come into play more than likely. But, as computing power gets better, and the VW systems more efficient, and bandwith cheaper, it will become easier to support a VW with little money.

Ken Brady: I think Scoble offers an insight into the possibility of a reputation economy, so I think that will be one model.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with being paid to disseminate an idea I already have and support. Scoble hypes things he wants to hype, and that’s how advertising could change with that model of propagation. I don’t like the idea of people hocking products and ideas they don’t support, which is how it has worked with advertising in the past.

Adam Johnson: With reputation at least, if you hock something not good, you lose your reputation status. It is all balanced out and keeps people in check.

Ken Brady: I think having a two-tiered opt-out model (ads for a free experience; ad-free for a small fee) works sometimes. It may work in virtual worlds, but it’s not yet proven.

Tish Shute: Yes and there are two ends to this aren’t there? Because on the one hand much of the sophistication of the Web 2.0 revolution in terms of monetizing (and I agree Scoble is an example of that) has gone on apart from the development of virtual worlds up to this point. And, conversley the innovation of VWs has not really melded with the web so now we are at a turning point with OpenSim where these two directions collide and what will come out of this collision is…………?

Ken Brady: It’s really going to come down to what system gives users the experience they want. I think there is a lot of experimentation and head-scratching going on right now about this. In all phases of advertising, purchasing content, etc. Virtual worlds are in an unusual (and enviable, I’d argue) position because we are developing these things while still in the early stages of the industry, while industries like TV, print, movies, music are struggling with radical change.

I think what comes out of all this is a meshing of technologies. Hopefully we grab the good of what’s worked for the web and the good of what’s worked (so far) in virtual worlds and fuse them into a viable, scalable model. We need to create a system that allows people to create and play and work in virtual worlds as easily and as robustly as they do now on the web. That’s a pretty big order.

Also, that requires a huge melding of the minds. A lot of people from a lot of industries need to work together to make this happen.

Tish Shute: Yes but I take my hat off to Genkii, Tribal, Rex, Deep Think, HiPiHi, 3Di because none of you seem to be retreating in 2.5 D and flash plug ins or simply a model that plugs 3D into the web?

Ken Brady: I think those models are right for many people, but aren’t necessarily right for what we’re trying to accomplish overall. I think of most 2.5D/Flash virtual worlds as stepping stones. Sure, there are some great ideas and technologies that will come from them, but they are mostly grabbing a segment of the population that’s not ready (in hardware, broadband, or desire) to make the jump to more free-form 3D worlds. I firmly believe the 3D web is coming, but many times you have to take it in steps. And, really, that’s what Second Life, HiPiHi, OpenSim all are anyway. All steps toward something new.

Don’t get me wrong: I also think the 3D web will incorporate a lot of 2.5D/Flash technology, and that all that we learn from current and upcoming platforms will be integrated in those that come after. 3D worlds need to be easier, no download, more stable, etc. We’re just not there yet.

Tish Shute: And what about the intergration of mobile with immersive 3D?

Ken Brady: Mobile technology is absolutely central to any social technology here in Japan. Sometimes, I think people don’t realize how true that is, but think it’s an exaggeration. There are, I believe, now over 100 million mobile subscribers in Japan. And these are 3G phones. Coverage is awesome, and phone use is ubiquitous. Look at mixi, Japan’s largest social network. Most of its users update by mobile phone. Much more often than using a computer. Social media that doesn’t support mobile dies in Japan.

Tish Shute: But the integration of mobile and virtual worlds is not as easy is it - and I don’t mean technically I mean conceptually?

Ken Brady: It’s not easy. Conceptually, it’s a much different thing to be in a virtual world on a computer, keyboard and mouse at the ready, than using a mobile. I think that way of thinking stems from a western outlook. In the US, I think it will be hard to get people to log into a virtual world on their phones, even when the technology is available. In Japan, it wouldn’t be any more strange than sitting on the train watching TV on your phone, or writing a novel on your phone for others to read from their phones, or updating your mixi blog. These things happen constantly here already.

Tish Shute: Also as Genkii is the first consulting agency for VWs that I have seen that foregrounds open source (are there any others) could you tell me more about that?

Ken Brady: We don’t know if we’re the only consulting agency for VWs putting open Source upfront, but, if not, we’re one of the few. I know NMC has talked about its Open Virtual Worlds Project with Sun and I know others have mentioned open source worlds, but I’m not entirely sure where they stand on actual development and involvement.

Tish Shute: I should ask you articulate why you have directed you energy towards OpenSim and OpenSocial (but I am pretty sure I know the answer to that question) but many other people will not!

Ken Brady: I think you’ll see a lot more agencies talking about open source as soon as more clients are interested in it. Demand will drive it, as always. In our case, we believe that open source development is important to advancing these young technologies. We want to see virtual worlds and social media mature into the amazing technologies we know they can be.

OpenSim represents, we think, an opportunity to build a platform that will advance virtual world technology and the user experience. OpenSocial represents the same, albeit in a tangential industry.

Adam Johnson: We may have a bias towards OpenSim, but we are still agnostic in that effect. We are keeping our eye on the other projects such as Croquet, and Sun’s platform as well.

Ken Brady: We think this will be integral to advancing relevant industries, and we want to help where we can. It’s not about any one player or one platform. Adam is right. We’re platform agnostic, but we will recommend open source where it’s possible, and therefore applicable.

Adam Johnson: But I am in favor of all of the projects coming together to at least collaborate on knowledge, lessons learned, tips, etc.

I’m sure we are all going through similar problems, and are solving them over and over again needlessly.

Ken Brady: Agreed. I think the virtual worlds industry is awesome for one reason above many others: almost everyone I’ve met in the industry I like and want to collaborate with. I don’t feel competitive against most of them, because we’re all so early in this field. We all need to work together.

Adam Johnson: I think this year you will start to see some first steps in interoperability between the OpenSim projects. Within OpenSim, you will start to see all of the grids starting to interconnect with eachother, forming one large grid of grids. And from there, hopefully we can get some SL and OpenSim interconnect happening as well.

Tish Shute: So any involvement with enterprise solutions from Genkii?

Ken Brady: As far as enterprise worlds, we’ve certainly talked to some folks about it. I’ve discussed this in length with a lot of people in the film industry, especially. I think it’s a fascinating and exciting direction to go. 3D space is such a good collaborative environment and it’s being under-utilitzed. This summer I’ll be doing an interactive presentation for the Directors Guild of America on using virtual worlds for film production and collaboration. Having worked in the film industry myself and made movies, I feel it would be an outstanding use of the technology.

Adam Johnson: We definitely want to get involved there at some point. I know our partner Jeff Ames, who is also a core dev of OpenSim, and a major contributor to the OpenViewer project has some great ideas for dataviz.

Tish Shute: Then I have a big question for Ken re the science fiction to science moves that we may see soon in virtual worlds (the one i would most like to see is get 3D off a 2D screen!).

Ken Brady: I think there are an exciting number of science fiction concepts coming to life in virtual worlds already. I’ve gotten some grief from some of my fellow SF writers who ask why I’m wasting time in virtual worlds, seriously. I then show them some of the things that they wrote about or read about becoming real in the virtual space. Sometimes it scares them, sometimes excites them. It’s weird.

Certainly some of the most exciting are 3D devices. Who hasn’t been pining for full 3D? I still remember wearing a 3D helmet and playing with Dactyl Nightmare in the early 90s and I want to see integration of that sort of technology. We all know it will happen, but exactly when and which sort of system will be dominant is questionable. There are helmets, 180 degree screens, iGlasses, etc. Inobtrusive, wearable tech is really my personal choice. I look forward to augmented reality and my iGlasses. Input devices are also moving forward quickly. Mitch Kapor’s work in SL, Johnny Lee’s Wii hack, Surface, Keio University’s thought controller, and other similar technologies make me giddy.

Some of it is open source and some is not. I’m trying to get in to go play with as much as possible for an article I’m writing for Analog about virtual worlds. I’ll let you know when I find out!

I met Naoyoshi, CEO of Metabirds, at the Electric Sheep Company’s party during the Virtual Worlds Conference, 2008. And, ever since then, I have been looking forward to hearing more about Naoyoshi’s vision for the future of virtual worlds and his pioneering company Metabirds that has developed 25 sims in Second Life ™ (A registered Trademark of Linden Lab).

The first part of this interview began in a gmail conversation and then we met in Second Life to talk at length about a number of directions Naoyoshi is exploring; including his blog portal web site and point service “SLMaMe”, his ventures in OpenSim with a brand new project OpenNebula, and his pioneering of manufacturing 2.0 with Naturum Islands Resort in Second Life.

SLMaMe (for the Google translation see here), Nao points out, “gets 14,000,000 page views per month.” Also SLMaMe’s innovative point service, Nao explains below, is the basis for micropayments in 2D/3D virtualworlds.

Interview with Naoyoshi Shimaya, CEO of Metabirds: Part One

Tish: Could you tell me a bit about what Metabirds have been doing lately? What are your latest projects?

Nao: Our biggest project is “SLMaMe”, which is blog portal web site about virtual worlds. It gets 14,000,000 page views per month. We produce the “Naturum Islands Resort” project in SL. It’s an outdoor resort region that uses 2 SIMs. Naturum is an EC website which is the biggest outdoorgoods EC. They have blog comunity. Metabirds brought them into SL.

And we are planning to create real outdoor product using SL creators’ design.

Tish: Are you still mainly focused in SL? Or are you working in other virtual worlds?

Nao: We are interested in the OpenSimsolution, and we have started creating a grid, OpenNebula. Also, we are interested in other metaverses.
Especially, we are interested in:
* virtual worlds in which we can create objects
* virtual worlds in which we can do business
( sell and buy objects, services, lands… using virtual money which can exchange
to real money.

Tish: How is Second Life doing in Japan? I sometimes visit Japanese sims and see a lot of enthusiasm for music and fashion? What are the most successful parts of SL from you perspective?

Nao: Creatives/arts and businesses. I believe it’s absolutely necessary for us to develop the virtual world.

Tish: What do you think is the way forward for SL in Japan? And for Virtual World adoption in Japan?
Nao: I think time will provide a solution to many of the Hardware/Software/Network problems. And the problems will be solved soon, if we keep wanting an ideal virtual world.

And, most companies will come into virtual worlds after people/users come into virtual worlds.

Tish: What are, from your point of view, the biggest changes necessary to SL to make it more appealing to a large audience in Japan?

Nao: *stability, using world wide distributed processing servers

Tish: and… for all virtual worlds..

Nao:

*output devices ( e.g. glasses )
*input devices ( e.g. brain waves )

Tish: In the US there has been a recent upsurge in 3D chat rooms and lite weight 3D and walled garden virtual worlds. Is this the same in Japan and are you still optimistic that an immersive free form 3D programmable space like SL can expand its appeal to a mass audience?

Nao: I think…
“3D chat rooms and lite weight 3D and “walled garden virtual worlds” are just services.
Second Life and other CREATIVE virtual worlds are next infrastructure for the internet.

The former can boom and can get a lot of users in the short period (1~5 years)

The latter can get a lot of users in the long period ( 3~10 years )
Because there are a lot of interesting services that can be born in these platforms.

Tish: What do you see, if any, is the role for virtual worlds in positive global development?

Nao:

*Business
The virtual market can be the biggest market we have ever found.
It will show a hidden labor force all over the world.

I think virtual wealth can be as valuable as real wealth, in the meaning that they provide - happiness… to make our life happy.
We can exchange virtual goods with each other using virtual/real money.
Businesses can develop that also provide real life goods,services for people.

*Community
We can connect with other people more richly using virtual worlds than previous internet services.
It will be able to create more powerful “Imagined communities” using real/virtual mixed world.
Some will fail, but, some communities will gain influence in “real” life all over the world.

Part 2: In Second Life

Tara5 Oh: Adam Johnson mentioned to me that Metabirds and Genkii are working together?
Nao Noe: Genkii is our partner.

Tara5 Oh: Does “Open Nebula” have an English client?

Nao Noe: “Open Nebula” is small now, because it has just started. You can join using SL client in English. But we don’t have English website, and English information yet

Nao Noe: You can log in “Open Nebula” using SL client launched with ” 　-loginuri http://60.32.217.116:8002/ -set systemLanguage ja”
-loginuri http://60.32.217.116:8002/

Nao Noe: You can register user account at

http://opennebula.net/RegistUser/entry_1.php

Tara5 Oh: Cool I will try and go in! Do you anticipate putting up an English website soon?

Nao Noe: We want to make English website…… but we don’t have time now.

Nao Noe: “Open Nebula” is a wasteland now, and not stable. It’s just a test project.

Tara5 Oh: I am very interested in how people feel assets will be built up in OpenSim projects? Are u thinking of building a virtual economy and using micropayments in the future?

Nao Noe: Yes I am. We have SLMaMe, which is blog portal website. In SLMaMe, we have a point service.

Nao Noe: I think the point service will be used for micropayments in 2D/3D virtualworlds.

Tara5 Oh: What do you mean by a point service?

Nao Noe: For now, a blog user can get 10 SLMaMe points(named MaMeTa ), when their adsence is clicked. The user will change these points to L$ next month. And, in the near future, the user can buy “MaMeta” with L$, JPY, US$ and, can get a lot of services in many Virtual Worlds.

Tara5 Oh: So an ad on a blog can earn you SLMaMe points which you can then convert into L$ ?

Nao Noe: Yes

Nao Noe: I want to make this point service to a virtual currency.

Nao Noe: But, I’m not interested in just “exchange money”.

Tara5 Oh: What is your interest?

Nao Noe: I want people to change virtual items, virtual services……. I want people to do interesting businesses using our currency.

Tara5 Oh: One of the big challenges for OpenSource virtual worlds is to make incentives for people to build interesting assets but they also want to be able to port assets across worlds. Do you see assets being exchanged between SL and OpenNebula?

Nao Noe: I think our economies/grid can be exist equally with LL and other real countries’ economy. But, it’s small we are creating very very small country. If we want to exchange money/asset with another VW, other real country, I think it’s just a political and technical problem.
But, if we want more and more, to exchange with other world/country, it will be realized in the near future.

Tara5 Oh: Yes I agree with you!

Tara5 Oh: How has the Japanese community in Second Life been growing? I see a lot of cool music and fashion events!

Nao Noe: I love Japanese users’ music and fashion very much.

Nao Noe: It’s very important that we introduce them into real world people.

Nao Noe: so, I made SLMaMe website.

Nao Noe: I know a lot of users become SL user, after reading user blogs.

Nao Noe: We are planning to create Real goods with Naturum. We are choosing a SL creator in fashion contest event in SLMaMe.

Tara5 Oh: There are a lot of English speaking admirers of Japanese fashion in SL!

Tara5 Oh: Cool are you hoping to do some RL integration?

Nao Noe: Yes

Nao Noe: At first, we are trying to create clothes in small lots, using SL creator’s design.

Nao Noe: Naturum has manufacturing network, because they have large EC website.

Nao Noe: we are trying for “manufacturing2.0″

Tara5 Oh: What other VWs besides SL and OpenSim are Metabirds developing in?

Nao Noe: I’m interested in HipiHi. I want to make SLMaMe into English and Chinese version. In the Chinese Version, HiPiHi is very important.

Tara5 Oh: In the US the Electric Sheep have moved a lot to 2.5 D and closed virtual worlds!

Nao Noe: I know ESC are moving a lot 2.5D

Nao Noe: I think it’s important in the near future, to maintain the company.

Tara5 Oh: in the US there is a huge interest in 3D immersive for corporate collaboration and education . Is that true in Japan?

Nao Noe: In my opinion, it’s true. OpenSim is a strong platform for this we will introduce OpenSim to companies.

Tara5 Oh: so to follow up on my question about 2.5 D has Metabirds managed to stay focused on the 3D immersive without having to develop more in 2.5D and flash like ESC?

Nao Noe: We are very small company, we don’t need many fixed cost. It’s a simple solution for us.

Tara5 Oh: So you continue to find SL devlopment profitable?

Nao Noe: SL, OpenSim, HiPiHi, SLMaMe.

Tara5 Oh: Which all develop the immersive 3D path which is good I think!

Tara5 Oh: Melting Dots also felt their communities in SL were strong and growing although they work across other platforms. Do you feel this about your SL communities? How many sims do you have in SL?

Nao Noe: about 25 and we have SLMaMe comunity gathering thousands of SL core users who are VW core users in Japan. it’s very strong.

Tara5 Oh: What does MaMe mean in English?

Nao Noe: Bean

Nao Noe: SLMaMe is a broad bean.

Tara5 Oh: heh Bean is a slang word for currency in English too!

Tara5 Oh: Do you have your own portal for Metabirds sims in SL?

Nao Noe: our company site is http://www.metabirds.com/ and http://www.metabirds.com/service/metaworld.html is information.

Nao Noe: And we are planning to create Social Network Site website for the metabirdssims(metaworld) user http://metaworld.jp/

Tara5 Oh: how many people work for Metabirds now?

Nao Noe: about 10.

Tara5 Oh: and you are based in Tokyo?

Nao Noe: Yes, but our staff live all over Japan.

Tara5 Oh: so you are a virtual company too?

Nao Noe: Yes.

Nao Noe: We are using SL and Skype to communicate with each other.

Tara5 Oh: Melting Dots said they saw themselves primarily as virtual world event creators and an agency specializing in social media - how do you describe Metabirds?

Nao Noe: We are “Virtual World Business Developer.”

Tara5 Oh: I saw the recent press release from NTT.

NTT, the largest telecommunication company in Japan will invest in the NGI group with a total of 1,630,000,000 yen. NGI group is the owner of 3Di so NTT is planning to work on metaverse business with their new NGN (Next generation network) system (see Second Times).

Tara5 Oh: What do you think are the implications of this for Japanese virtual World development?

Nao Noe: I think it’s good for hardware/network infrastracture for virtual worlds.

Nao Noe: and, on their service, Metabirds can provide a lot of businesses then, then the users will become happy If they provide low cost and stable infrastracture, it’s very good for us.

Meltingdots from left to right, Hiroshi, Ebiichi, Yamazaki, Ito at the Electric Sheep Company’s party for Virtual Worlds, 2008 in New York City.

Ever since my friend Al Kronos clued me in to all the Meltingdots hotness in Second Life, I have been meaning to catch up with them. So when I met CEO, Hiroshi Asaeda and the Meltingdots crew in “real” life, I was thrilled. And, last week I caught up with Hiroshi Asaeda in Second Life ™ (A registered Trademark of Linden Lab).

Meltingdots are a very successful event organizer in Second Life. The screenshot below is a DJ event presented by one of Japan’s major music labels - avex. For more see avex island in Second Life.

Meltingdots also publish Virtual Walker - a virtual world themed magazine.

They held an event in Second Life (screenshot below) just a few days before Virtual Walker was published in “real life”. Hiroshi said: “Everybody joined the conversation, how SL would grow, how users should get involved, and what real companies should do.”

You can participate in Meltingdots events in Second Life every night from 21:00PM Japan time.

The event in the picture below was a lecture course to how to build and customize a “meltingdog.”

Interview with Hiroshi Asaeda, CEO of Meltingdots

Tara5 Oh: Could you tell me a bit about Meltingdots are you still mainly focused in Second Life?

Asaeda Meltingdots: I would answer no to that question. We are starting in many other virtual worlds.

Tara5 Oh: Were are you starting?

Asaeda Meltingdots: Were doing more stuff in avatar services.

Tara5 Oh: Could you explain what that means?

Asaeda Meltingdots: All services in which avatars exist. It can be 3D and 2D. What’s important to me is that it has another virtual YOU in the web.

Tara5 Oh: So like The Electric Sheep Company while you began with a focus on SL you have broadened now?

Asaeda Meltingdots: Yes, but we are not going to quit SL.

Tara5 Oh: How is SL going in Japan? I sometimes visit Japanese sims and see a lot of enthusiasm for music and fashion?

Asaeda Meltingdots: There are many high quality items made by Japanese SL users. And they are very cheap.

Tara5 Oh: Is there also a scientific and educational community as in Europe and US?

Asaeda Meltingdots: Meltingdots built a SIM for a University, but I don’t hear much about an original community yet. The reason for this is that Japan is a small country, that they can actually meet in RL if they want.

Tara5 Oh: Have you got involved with the OpenSim development yet - I know 3Di is very into it!

Asaeda Meltingdots: Not yet in our company. But I think it is hard for companies to be satisfied in the SL client right now.

Tara5 Oh: What are the biggest changes necessary to SL to make it more appealing to a large audience?

Asaeda Meltingdots: Well the biggest problem so far in Japan is that there aren’t many Linden staffs - just one! Jun Linden is my friend.

You can’t buy land in Yen, you can’t buy Linden dollars in Yen. That problem is BIG.

Tara5 Oh: Is this because no-one in Japan has been able to find a way to become what I think Linden Lab calls a global provider?

Asaeda Meltingdots: You have to pay LL to be a global provider and you can’t make money from bringing in new users. People buy land from LL. so there isn’t much benefit.

Tara5 Oh: And LL have no servers in Japan yet do they?

Asaeda Meltingdots: No they don’t.

Tara5 Oh: Have you talked to people at LL about remedying this situation?

Asaeda Meltingdots: To make the business model work, LL should pay back each users registering to the provider. I talked with them a long time ago, maybe about 6 months ago.

Tara5 Oh: It seems to me, although the Japanese community is small, still the interest in an immersive virtual economy like SL is strong - what do you think?

Asaeda Meltingdots: I think it is very strong.

At least I can say there are no virtual worlds that are even close to Second Life yet

Tara5 Oh: What are the Meltingdots builds that you think have been most successful?

Asaeda Meltingdots: We think our events our the most successful so far, buildings don’t matter.

We had real major musicians come in to Second Life. And we had them communicate with their fans.

Asaeda Meltingdots: We publish magazines about virtual worlds, every 3 months, 30,000 copies all around Japan.

We are partnered with one of the biggest media companies in japan.

Tara5 Oh: What are the most popular avatar networks in Japan?

Asaeda Meltingdots: youtube, nicovideo, mobile games, and Second Life. Avatar networks in Japan are mainly game sites.

We’re working with other companies mainly. We’re more like an agency.

Sorry, I have to go. My colleagues are calling me right now!

It is jaw dropping the number of new features that realXtend has brought to the Second Life ™ (A registered Trademark of Linden Lab) open source client and OpenSim server tech in only a few short months. Last week the Rex team posted a video showing inverse kinematics, character morph controls, and clothing physics- see here. And, this week they have revealed their latest feature - the integration of Facegen (see the video here or click on the screenshot above).

I attended realXtend’s recent open meeting in Second Life. The Rex team answered questions to an eager crowd that included, the Second Life avatar, G2 Proto, of Kyle “G” the lead developer from G2 (see here for more on their hardware and networking division). Kyle “G” is currently involved in a collaborative effort with Microsoft to explore the abilities of the C#/.NET based OpenSim software. He is spearheading efforts with the Second Life Microsoft .Net User Group to create the Microsoft’s new developer community OpenSim grid - Project Manhattan. Kyle seemed very interested in the work of realXtend! I have an in depth interview with Kyle from G2 and Zain from Microsoft that details their vision for Virtual World Developer and Platform Evangelism on Open Sim. I am transcribing this and will post soon!

Interview with Jani Pirkola

Jani Pirkola, Rex’s Project Manager, kindly took some time to answer a few questions in the middle of this very busy and exciting time for Rex. The new Rex video showing the Facegen integration has just been posted on the Rex media page. Jani said:

It is almost scary as it is so real! I really start to see that we are approaching something so real as in Snowcrash or Otherland series of books. You can also make yourself look younger or older, different gender or race.

Tish: Wow!! Congratulations to the realXtend team you really have shown the world what can be done with the open source Second Life client and achieved what many considered impossible at this stage! These two new avatar tech videos are awesome!

Jani: Well, the main focus of our work at the moment is on Avatar. We have integrated Facegen so that you can use photos from your own face to create your own avatar.
We are just about to release new versions of viewer and server, and we start to host public avatar storage and authentication services to promote the future internet and avatar portability.
Now we have a lot of work to do on planning. But we are going to focus on three tracks:

1) a base track to fix stability issues.

2) a user experience track to make it look extremely good.

3) a collaboration track to do all the document sharing stuff.
In the new software release we have some cool new features. For example, you can have friends list working no matter where you and your friends are, so it works across realXtend grids and worlds. The same is true for your personal inventory, you can have that too with you when you teleport to different worlds.

Tish: One of the great things Rex has done is to offer so many new and great features so fast that you have for the first time created a situation where content developers have a significant new incentive to start working in an OpenSim grid. Are you beginning to see interest from content developers?

Jani: Yes, I have received many contacts for example from architects, they see the value of using real 3D models in virtual worlds. Professor François Garnier of Ecole Nationale Supérieur des Arts Décoratifs de Paris is one of the early adopters of realXtend platform in their art productions.

Tish: Obviously SL has a huge lead on content production and will probably offer licensing to open grids that want to share content at some point? But, what new models for content production do you see emerging in the Open Metaverse?

Jani: From Second Life users we have heard some complaining about the IP rights issue. They would die to have that feature on realXtend. But we have a plan for this; We could make an object rights server, that keeps SHA1 hash values of all the assets and licenses how to use that asset plus information about which users are allowed to use that asset.

Then it is possible to build a feature to the viewer that users can check if someone is using stolen or bought jacket. That creates a social pressure instead of trying to technically prevent copying. Technical prevention is always going to fail in the end, so we need to use social pressure instead. For example, If everyone could check whether an asset is owned or stolen, someone who is representing a company would not want to use anything stolen on them.

Ben Goertzel, Novamente, said that if someone steals his AI pet dog, it is a dead dog without the AI that runs on his server. Philip Rosedale was in agreement on this point also. Philip said much the same thing when he attended our Open Source Virtual Worlds panel at VW 2008.

If you really want to protect some content, you need to have server side functionality attached to it. This combined with our idea of using asset hash on a server, we think would boost the content creation.

realXtend offers possibility to use OGRE meshes and world is full of ready made 3D models that you can convert to that format. So that solves at least part of the initial egg-chicken content problem for realXtend.

Tish: Some people are proclaiming the notion of a virtual economy is dead, others say that virtual economies still have legs. What is your view on this?

Jani: First of all, I am an engineer, so economics is not my cup of tea. Still it seems that virtual money is successful in many games and virtual worlds. If it can be tied to RL money, that can be a source of many problems, like money laundering. I am not ready to say it is dead, but we might have to wait to see what future brings in this area.

Tish: There is a lot of work on interoperability going on right now. I even heard that Qwaq is considering working on interoperability with OpenSim! And I heard Rex is in talks with Solipsis. What are Rex’s goals for interoperability? I know in order to develop some of the super cool features of Rex you are not currently integrated with the OS trunk. But Adam Frisby mentioned to me a way you could remain integrated with OpenSim but still have the freedom to be the trail blazers of the future. Could you tell me more about your plans for compatibility with OpenSim in the future?

Jani: Yes, right now we are in warm talks with Solipsis to figure out how to co-operate the best possible way. Lets see what comes out from that. Their technological ideology is the best I can think of, combination of both client-server and peer-to-peer to get best of both of the worlds.

The focus in realXtend is to lead the development. There is a secondary goal to be interoperable whenever it makes sense. I just heard from Adam that the latest OpenSim is rock solid, so that is a big incentive for us to continue our efforts to modify realXtend code to be compatible with them. The goal here is to make realXtend as modules for OpenSim for easy integration.

Tish: Rex has blazed the trail with facilitating the import/export of meshes! But large meshes from programs like 3D max, while they create totally new opportunities for applications and content development, can be time consuming to work in and often require a lot of time on the import /export work, and they can be difficult to fine tune in world. One of the dreams for the future might be prim meshes that would bring the best of both worlds together (prim and mesh) do you see this as a possibility? I have heard many obstacles from bandwidth to graphic card inadequacies. But as Rex now has a reputation for doing the impossible I am asking your view on whether prim meshes are on the horizon? If not what are you doing to make meshes more flexible and easy to work with in world?

Jani: That is an interesting idea, and we have toyed ourselves with it already. It is definitely not impossible, though we have not made any decisions whether we will implement it or not.
We are going to do a lot of improvements to world building tools and add new possibilities like projectors, and things that are familiar from game level editing tools. Mesh selection is going to be fixed, for example. So you can expect much more in the area of world building. We are doing a lot of world building ourselves and have found it too cumbersome at the moment.

Tish: OpenSim is definitely the fastest forward moving kid on the metaverse block. I know that the Rex avatar server is out and the Rex grid open. But, as I have a Mac I have no first hand experience, so I am interested to know how well things are progressing re stability, concurrency and ability to scale?

Jani: Those are currently the weak points we have, but we are going to attack also these in the near future. The stability is number one, it is a must for every application out there.

Tish: OpenSim is beginning to get a lot of interest from major corporate players. IBM, Microsoft, Intel, are three of the big ones. How do you think this will effect Rex and the developing ecosystem of OpenSim?

Jani: I think you could compare OpenSim and realXtend to operating system and a windowing system. realXtend is built on OpenSim, so every big company who starts to use OpenSim, will consider using realXtend as well. By using realXtend, you actually use OpenSim server plus some modifications we have done to enable all the new features.
I am sure that OpenSim and realXtend benefit each other as the whole ecosystem looks richer that way.

Tish: Recently I talked to several key metaverse developers in Japan and the integration of 3D immersive and mobile tech is very much part of their vision. But Japanese cell phone habits make the possibilities for interesting integration very rich. In Europe and the US what interesting directions do you think this integration with 3D immersive and mobile could take?

Jani: That is something we have given a lot of thought to, but we haven’t found a clear answer yet. One idea is that there could be communication application that you can use to have presence in the virtual world even when you are on the move.

Tribal Net, which goes into public Beta at the end of this week, not only brings us the long awaited OpenSim on your PC but by creating new back end protocols for OpenSim the Tribal Media team has introduced a key innovation to OpenSim - the decentralized grid. I interviewed the two founders of Tribal Media last week, Darren Guard who is also the founder of OpenSim and Stefan Andersson who was the first to join Darren on the OpenSim project. Stefan also led the development of “Playahead Island” in Second Life ™ (A registered Trademark of Linden Lab). Stefan has deep roots in web development and Playahead is one of Sweden’s largest web communities. Stefan explained the heart of the Tribal Net concept:

Everybody brings their own computing power [to Tribal Net] and we’ve packaged it for end users. I mean that basically joe schmoe can install it, set it up, and run it. Because OpenSim’s been very tech heavy, our goal with Tribal Net is to make Opensim more accessible for the wider layers so to speak. Also we’ve done some work on the map so that now when people go online their regions show up on the map. When they go off line the region disappears [it can also be persistent]. That is also a radically different approach from Second Life .

Yes! It is very easy to install and you will find your region immediately embedded in a network of other regions running on other PCs.

After I had set up my Ugotrade region, I clicked on map and it was a real thrill to see the Ugotrade come up in a neighborhood of other regions (even though I am apparently one of the first five people to try it outside of Tribal!) and immediately begin my first adventure in sim hopping - NOT across a grid run on a bunch of servers NOT on some huge server farm somewhere, but simply by teleporting to other peoples regions run on their own PC’s located across the globe. W00t!

Ugotrade Jr. got into it immediately and his terraforming and building skills are blossoming! Picture below shows his mountain retreat 2.0.

Tribal is still using the Second Life client but Darren said they hope to support the realXtend client at some point. Check out the awesome new avatar technology from realXtend in a new video out this week that shows off character morph controls, inverse kinematics, and clothing physics.

Below is a picture of Stefan And Darren enjoying a game of chess in one of the first regions I visited - a Tribal Net region running on Stefan’s laptop. Stefan explained:

The chess game application installed on the desktop is developed in c# by a third party - and anybody can create their own set of pieces and share it as an xml file

Tribal Media’s Vision

Tribal Net is the first public application from Tribal Media but it is only the beginning of their venture. Stefan explained their vision:

We see a virtual web world much more like the Web works today. Instead of a closed bubble, we should have an open, networked model. One size never fits all, so people should be able to make content on their own computers and share it with others, professionals should be able to make their own applications and run on their own servers, or to have it hosted on reliable hardware. Content should also be much more moveable, people should be able to transfer objects not only between worlds, but also via the web, blogs or e-mails. Tribal Net lets them do that. Our goal is to supply the tools to make this vision come true.

And as Darren noted: “At the moment our back end is basically customized for this one application. Each new application is going to need slightly different customization. Stefan also talked about a Facebook application they have been working on. There is not a general solution at the moment. Darren explained some of what they are hoping to achieve with Tribal Net.

From a engineering side, I think the main point is at the moment we are working on making it easier for people to start up and host their own region. TribalNet is our first demo of that process. Then we hope to make it easier for people to host their own small grids with this easy hosting of regions, so say any school or college could have their own small grid without the admin level that is needed currently for opensim. A important part of our concept is having a GUI for the regions, so that we can later provide add on modules for these GUI’s so for instant maybe we would provide a game construction toolset add on, or a presentation addon , that made it easier to host and control presentations. Some of these then at a later time could move into the viewer. Then at a higher level we have our set of extension api’s which I think its a bit too early to go into detail of.

What follows is the full transcript of my interview with Darren and Stefan. The first bit is about the history of the OpenSim project and then we discuss a number of topics including interoperability with Second Life, the Tribal teams’ view on virtual economies, asset development on Open Source grids, and what application they are most important in Tribal’s vision.

Interview with Darren Guard and Stefan Andersson.

Tish: How did OpenSim begin?

Darren Guard: For a number of years, I had thought about starting or getting involved with a open source virtual world project. But none of them seemed to be going anywhere. One of the problems was trying to create a client and server at the same time. Then in January 2007, I was looking around again at the various options, for use by my ex-employer. At the same time Linden Labs released the code for their client. Which I think from a legal point of view made creating a server that it could connect to a much more easy “sell”. So I started work on writing a very quick prototype server, to see if there was any problems with getting the SL viewer to connect to it and be able to move around. A number of people had the same idea of writing a server which was compatible with the SL viewer, it was even listed in the roadmap on libsecondlife’s website.

So, as much as we all moan about the SL client and wished there was something at least more generic, we do owe opensim’s existence to them releasing the source code. As I just wouldn’t have started Opensim if the
client was a closed proprietary one.

My initial thoughts on what I wanted to use the platform for, were very much on what would be useful in my old job. Simulation (Robotics) and 3d visualisation of data. This is why one of the stated goals of opensim is
it being a 3d application platform and not a SL clone. I see the social grids as just one small subset of the applications that a 3d virtual environment platform could be used for.

This is one of the biggest points of confusion when it comes to opensim. Most people think its goal is just to clone SL and behave exactly how that does, and support all the features out of the box. And we have to repeatedly tell them that its not the goal and that opensim will most likely never have all the features of SL as part of the main project. Other people will have to create the modules to add those features.

The goal of Opensim and Tribalmedia is to produce a common server that can be used as the base of a lot of different applications. I don’t think we can even really start guessing at what the most sucessful applications
will be in the future.

Tish: How did you meet Darren, Stefan?

Stefan Andersson: I’ve been working quite a lot with web, I mean I was quite early in the web development and I’ve been doing that for quite a lot of years. And, I was very interested in web and 3D integration. That’s actually how I stumbled upon Darren, when he first came on-line in lib second life chat room, and said hey I’ve got a prototypic open source second life server here.

Tish: Was the big moment in February 2007, Darren?

Darren: It was January.

Stefan: And I jumped on it. The first thing I did was to tweak his code, and give him some patches so I could connect his Second Life server to my then employers user database. The Employer at that time was Playahead. It’s one of Sweden’s largest web communities. So basically what I did was within an hour of getting my hands on the zip file, Darren’s first unpublished zip file, was to make sure that I could log into the SL viewer with my web community name and my web community password. When I came into a personalized world where all my friends and my friend lists were avatars, and when I chatted with them and I got guestbook messages into their guestbooks, that’s when I sat there and said WOW!

Tish: Not everyone recognised the potential then?

Stefan: I think they still don’t. You ask what’s important to us. We are very application oriented. We are very integration oriented. At the moment OpenSim is not very accessible and understandable for a large audience. We’re trying to show the world that there can be commercial application on this not just social networking applications, but actual 3D application. It’s a bit like the web, everybody thought that the web was about static HTML pages, and then now today we do much of our daily work on HTML. That’s kinda like the grand big hand motions. What we did when we started OpenSim, we had a very clear agenda, that we wanted this to be a shared experience 3D application platform.

Tish: When you say application, are you thinking more vertical applications or are you thinking vertical or horizontal on these distributed grids?

Darren: We don’t see one big monolithic grid, we sort of see, like Stefan said, like a web where you can link from one web site to another. You wouldn’t really say that every web site is part of one grid. When we talk about applications, its custom, i.e., you might go into one application to do one function then hop to do something else.

Stefan: So for example, now we have actually done Tribal Net as a showcase for our product Tribal server. And we did another showcase that we haven’t publicized yet, but basically that was web community integration.

Tish: What do you mean by web community integration?

Darren: That was a Facebook integration.

Tish: There are 2 basic models it seems being tried, a) embedding Opensims within the web or b) embedding the web in Opensims. Which model do you lean towars, or do you see a sort of heterogeneous mix of embedding in web pages and people who grid OpenSim out into larger communities and embed web pages in them?

Stefan: Actually that will probably be very much a per application decision. Some application are very suitable for 2 dimensional presentation and some application are very well suited for 3 dimensional. and we’ve done some prototypes with integrating web and 3D and obviously there’s going to be a lot of that coming.

Tish: How do you differentiate yourself from say an initiative like RealXtend?

Stefan: RealXtend? They are trying to do quite a lot of things. We are not competing with RealXtend. We would probably use Real Xtend.

Darren: Yes. From what I understand of Real Xtend, they’re focusing on the client. They have a central avatar system. I don’t really have that much knowledge of that. The main focus that we spoke about is on the client side. So we’re not really competition for them, we hope to support their client sometime.

Tish: I have heard on the grapevine you are using dynamic sims. What is a dynamic sim?

Stefan: Dynamic Sim! That can mean anything! We have quite a lot of concepts.

Darren: I think what they’re talking about is we’ve got this concept where we can bring a region up quickly when it’s needed so when you login we can bring your region up so that you wouldn’t even know it wasn’t up all the time. If there’s nobody there we can take it down.

Tish:
How have you done that?

Stefan: If you think about how Second Life works right now, how everybody seems to think about that, It’s kind of like a static model, the thing is there, whether anybody wants it or not. So you have like thousands of regions producing air. It’s a terrible waste of CPU. We wanted to do something like a web page, a dynamic web page. It’s constructed when you need it.

Tish: Are other people using this concept?

Darren: I think Adam has done something like it I’m not sure what exactly. But from what I hear Adam has similar ideas.

Stefan: That’s the thing about dynamic regions, It’s a feature of our tribal worlds platform. We used that as a proof of concept in that Facebook application where anybody could add a Facebook application and then they just went into their own private region, which was constructed on the fly for them. And when the last person leaves the room, he just turns the lights off.

Tish: And what kind of concurrencies can you get in these dynamic regions though?

Darren: I don’t think we’ve actually pushed it, but we can certainly get more because it’s basically where Second Life is based on total regions and they have to have a server up for each region, we only have to have a server or an instance of a region up for every person who wants to let a region have somebody in it. So if there’s nobody in a region we just don’t have it up.

Tish: I know everyone’s talking about putting OpenSim in clouds. Is this going to be workable with that idea too? Just in terms of being more efficient about the server side of this. Is that something that works with this or are you another direction than that?

Darren: I think it can work yes. It’s complimentary to our project.

Stefan: What we did with Tribal Net - It’s kind of like OS grid. Everybody brings their own computing power and what we’ve done is that we’ve packaged it for end users. I mean so that basically joe schmoe can install it, set it up, and run it. Because OpenSim’s been very tech heavy, our goal with Tribalnet is to make OpenSim more accessible for the wider layers so to speak. Also we’ve done some work on the map so that now when people go online their regions show up on the map. When they go off line the region disappears. That is also a radically different approach from Second Life.

Darren: To clarify that a little bit. What he means is that instead of a region having a set position on the map, we have a center of the map and the regions brought online are thrust around the center and if a region goes off it’ll be replaced by a new region that comes up.

Tish: What it’s sounding like when you describe this is you’re trying to use some of the ideas of P2P in a distributed grid.

Stefan: Yes definitely. I used to say Hey look Microsoft messenger, it should be like that. I know Darren isn’t that fond of that. But I think of it like that.

Tish: The development curve seems to have been rather slow thus far in P2P virtual worlds like Croquet and Solipsis. How do you see a lot of rich and interesting assets being built up on this kind of distributed grid

Darren: I think it’s too early for even us to say. Yes we’re more sort of a model of decentralized rather than a big monolithic grid like Second Life. One problem with Second Life is all the assets are centralized. That makes you responsible for making sure any users are updated with current textures etc. And you’ve got the problem of trying to police that to make sure there’s no textures that you don’t want there.

Stefan: We’re trying to move to P2P because that’s the only viable solution if we’re going to see web scalability. It just is. And we can’t really have stuff like central avatar repositories and things like that. We have to have a base case, which is the single server, and the single client. And then just have to grow from there. But what I wanted to say is that Darren made a brilliant choice way back when he was pondering what he would do. That was to take something that had proven itself on the market and to the user base. That is the Second Life client. What Darren did was that he combined that with another immensly popular and available technology. And that is .NET (dotnet). Basing this off .NET made it reasonably available to a community of programmers.

Tish: Second Life is the treasure chest of assets at the moment and also great content developers do not want to have to develop different content with different tools for tons of different VWs. What’s your stance on encouraging good content developers in Tribal Net? Are you aiming to be potentially interoperable with Second Life? Are you part of the Linden Lab Architectural Working Group initiative? Or are you going to try and go it alone?

Darren: First of all I need you to clarify the question. Do you mean like some people want to have OpenSim regions that are part of the Second Life grid like IBM, is that what you mean?

Tish: Oh I’m almost assuming from what you have said so far that you’re not going to do that. But are you going to aim for some level of interoperability?

Darren: I’m part of a working group that’s trying to get a common client protocol. We’ve got a sister project called Open Viewer. It’s started a few weeks ago but we’re attempting to incorporate elements of many clients like Croquet in an effort to achieve some degree of universality. Peter Fin from I.B.M. do you know him? He arranged it. We have a common protocol that you might not be able to do every feature in well. But you can at least connect, see the world and move around. We are also part of the Architectural Working Group but the focus is on Second Life there.

Stefan: If you look at what the architecture group has come up with so far, it’s Linden Lab’s protocol version 2 or not even that, it’s Second Life 1.5 - a big wish list basically. What we have, I guess, you could say that we have the small company rogue - a bit decentralized slash anarchistic - approach. We have a saying in OpenSim, I don’t know if you have seen it. I think actually I coined it but it’s “let a thousand worlds bloom.”

What we mean is that it’s too early to start drafting universal protocols. So what we’re doing with OpenSim is, and we’ve been very clear about this often repeating it over and over and over again, not to try to build a free and open source Second Life. We’re trying to build a platform, (we are not trying to make THE protocol) so that people who want to make protocols, should be able to do that with less effort. So when we’ve had our taste of applications, social applications, business applications, marketing applications, everything, then somewhere in there we can see probably something like http.

In Tribal net we have our own backend protocols. We have changed large chunks of the communication stack at the backend, the regions you install on your pc - some parts we have changed because this application needs other data and other processes. So I think we have implemented four different stacks. So we talk from experience.

Tish: Will you be publishing all your protocols?

Stefan: It is way too early to go into that. Right now we do not know what will bring everything forward. This is just one application now.

Darren: At the moment our backend is basically customized for this one application. Each new application is going to need slightly different customization. There is not a general solution at the moment.

Tish: So if it is all in the application, what are the killer apps?!

Stefan: Well we have done integration with web communities and 3D integration, that in combination with marketing applications, for example, being able to go on to say a Toyota site and click on a link and be on a Toyota showroom, not necessarily in the browser like everybody is visualizing because we have seen problems with that. We need something a bit more intelligent. The interplay between 2D and 3D is very intricate.

Tish: Everyone asks me about when they will be able to use OpenSim to create content they can upload into Second Life?

Darren: The big problem with that is SL terms and conditions, you aren’t actually allowed to export your creations out of SL. Now while it would be possible to import creations from OpenSim into SL, really until Linden Labs allows creations to be exported, there isn’t really the reason for people to work too much on adding those features to opensim. As only Linden labs really gains, as its one way traffic

Tish: Is there anything else notable about Tribal Net that hasn’t come up yet?

Darren: From a engineering side, I think the main point is at the moment we are working on making it easier for people to start up and host their own region. TribalNet is our first demo of that process. Then we hope to make it easier for people to host their own small grids with this easy hosting of regions, so say any school or college could have their own small grid without the admin lvel that is needed currently for opensim. A important part of our concept is having a GUI for the regions, so that we can later provide addon modules for these GUI’s so for instant maybe we would provide a game construction toolset addon, or a presentation addon , that made it easier to host and control presentations. Some of these then at a later time could move into the viewer. Then at a higher level we have our set of extenstion api’s which I think its a bit too early to go into detail of.

Tish: My big question is still without a virtual economy what do you see driving rich content production?

Stefan Andersson: Yeah; we’re all about content, actually; Tribal Net is about creating a content producer platform. A complete ‘ladder’ from consumer, over enthusiast, semi-pro and pro. Yeah; basically, we offer empowerment. It’s like ‘your world’ but for real.

I guess you know that content production and systems integration in a third-party hosted environment is a drag.

How many complex games and functions have you seen in SL? Stuff that would be a small thing to code if you had proper tools, becomes a nightmare.

But to me also it seems your definition of ‘content’ is close to the Linden notion of ‘content.’ The Lindens created an economy based on artificial scarcity you pay to stop somebody from sharing something but ‘content’ also ofte